Talk:shoot oneself in the foot

From Wiktionary, the free dictionary
Latest comment: 13 years ago by Prince Kassad in topic shoot oneself in the foot
Jump to navigation Jump to search

RFV discussion

[edit]

The following information has failed Wiktionary's verification process.

Failure to be verified means that insufficient eligible citations of this usage have been found, and the entry therefore does not meet Wiktionary inclusion criteria at the present time. We have archived here the disputed information, the verification discussion, and any documentation gathered so far, pending further evidence.
Do not re-add this information to the article without also submitting proof that it meets Wiktionary's criteria for inclusion.


Rfv-sense: (idiom) To deliberately self-sabotage. I haven't heard this use and didn't see it in the course of citing the idiomatic sense of "blundering, accidental self-destructive behavior". There are numerous unnecessary citations available for literally shooting oneself in the foot, both accidentally and intentionally. DCDuring TALK 17:12, 1 May 2010 (UTC)Reply

BTW are the other two senses not identical to each other? If so, why not? Mglovesfun (talk) 20:10, 1 May 2010 (UTC)Reply
The first means to sabotage something in one's own interest. The second means to act against one's own interest. The third is to do the same but unintentionally. Pingku 21:09, 1 May 2010 (UTC)Reply

RFV failed, sense removed. BTW, I agree with Mglovesfun: the two remaining senses seem the same to me. —RuakhTALK 20:46, 30 August 2010 (UTC)Reply

The following discussion has been moved from Wiktionary:Requests for cleanup.

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.


shoot oneself in the foot

[edit]

Neither of the definitions seem entirely correct, or well written. Mglovesfun (talk) 17:56, 28 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

Definition 1 seems more like an etymology, though it may just be a folk etymology. I think of cases such as the NY Giant football player, w:Plaxico Burress#Accidental shooting, who simultaneously literally shot himself in the thigh at a nightclub and figuratively shot himself in the foot by breaking the law in a way that could not be covered up. I associate an element of blundering clumsiness with this idiom. DCDuring TALK 15:36, 1 May 2010 (UTC)Reply
Another possible example (written up in secret of Polichinelle) is: "It is said that Polst fell because he revealed in an unlucky interview the Secret of Polichinelle, the secret which all the world knew, the secret that there was a claque at the Metropolitan Opera House." Pingku 16:25, 1 May 2010 (UTC)Reply
As clumsiness and intent are important to this IMHO, it would be necessary to know more about the incident. DCDuring TALK 17:24, 1 May 2010 (UTC)Reply
Insomuch as it might be an example of "shooting oneself in the foot", the citation seems to be a judgement about someone else's action, so the "intent" is a subjective consideration. The imputation seems to be of bad judgement (diplomatically described as bad luck) on the part of the person making the mistake. Pingku 19:50, 1 May 2010 (UTC)Reply
I have added and cited a third sense: "accidental self-sabotage", which is the only idiomatic sense I am aware of. I've never heard of this being used as an idiom to refer to intentional self-sabotage and have accordingly RfVed the second sense. If it does not survive then the literal first sense doesn't even belong in an etymology. DCDuring TALK 17:24, 1 May 2010 (UTC)Reply

I'm sorry to break it to you but all of the above is wrong in a historical sense. The phrase "to shoot oneself in the foot" derives from the Great War (WW1), where a soldier would deliberately shoot himself in the foot to avoid having to go "over the top" to certain death. It is, therefore, cowardly act that involves self-harm and pain as an alternative to something much worse. Unfortunately, the phrase has been badly misused over the many years since it was first coined and has now been taken to mean a blunder. It doesn't involve anything accidental, but is deliberate self-sabotage, something even Plaxico Burress isn't stupid enough to undertake. [17 September, 2010 - B Mathieson] — This comment was unsigned.

The literal sense is not in itself dictionary-worthy as it has no meaning apart from its components. How the idiomatic sense came about could perhaps be traced through the written record. Getting some citations of all the senses would be helpful. DCDuring TALK 10:59, 17 September 2010 (UTC)Reply

OK now? -- Prince Kassad 10:12, 5 March 2011 (UTC)Reply