Talk:autist

About “Autist” being “Back-formation from autistic”, or “Autistic” being “Autist + -ic”

https://www.etymonline.com/word/autistic
“autistic (adj.) 1912 (Bleuler), from autism (q.v.). Noun meaning "person with autism" is recorded from 1968 (earlier in this sense was autist).” 8.40.31.230 11:22, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

The etymology of autistic is not relevant here - we're dealing with the term autist and unless you can provide a source stating anything else, please don't change the etymology again. Robbie SWE (talk) 18:11, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

Being the author of the above discussion tab lines only to bring knowledge from an external source, I have no idea what you are talking about. I have no interest in your “entries”/main tab editing squabbles. Incidentally, since you are even doing it here, the source presented deals with the term “autist” and the imputation that it only deals with the term “autistic” is false. You may have read too quickly, which can happen to anyone. 8.40.31.230 13:36, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

The quoted Etymonline text above says that the noun "autist" predated the noun "autistic" (e.g. "Bob and Jane are both autistics"), but doesn't seem to say where "autist" actually came from, and whether it's a back-formation or not. Equinox ◑ 13:39, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

https://www.etymonline.com/word/autism

“autism (n.) · 1912, from German Autismus, coined 1912 by Swiss psychiatrist Paul Bleuler from Greek autos "self" (see auto-) + -ismos suffix of action or of state.” 8.40.31.230 13:49, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Talk:autistic#Autist·ic_stemming_from_autist_+_-ic? 8.40.31.230 14:05, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism_spectrum#History

“The New Latin word autismus (English translation autism) was coined by the Swiss psychiatrist [Paul] Eugen Bleuler in 1910 (…). He derived it from the Greek word: αὐτός, romanized: autós, lit. 'self' (…). A Soviet child psychiatrist, Grunya Sukhareva, described a similar syndrome in Russian in 1925, and in German in 1926.” 8.40.31.230 14:24, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

The 1922 source cited by the OED, and almost certainly the one Merriam-Webster's had in mind, is C. R. Payne et al. tr. O. Pfister Psycho-anal. in Service Educ. ii. 101:

  The autist who finds little of value in reality..dreams that he is playing some part of paramount importance.

The OED mentions "Origin: A borrowing from German. Etymon: German Autist. Etymology: < German Autist (1917 in the passage translated in quot. 1922, or earlier) < ancient Greek αὐτός self (see auto- comb. form1) + German -ist -ist suffix, after Autismus autism n." Oolong (talk) 15:06, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Do you honestly believe that it's relevant to have "From Ancient Greek auto-/αὐτο- ("self-") via German Autist." as the etymology of autist? Bad formatting aside, do you really think this is helpful? If we were to apply the same logic to, let's say autoerotica, would you then consider "From Ancient Greek auto-/αὐτο- ("self-") via French autoérotique." as correct or even remotely helpful? Both of these sample etymologies are in my view incomplete, skipping quite a few morphological steps. As Equinox pointed out, the provided source doesn't actually say anything about where autist comes from, only casually mentions – without proof, mind you – that the it predates the term autistic. Robbie SWE (talk) 18:02, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

So, as this is in the discussion tab, the really searching public will find and appreciate for themselves, that’s the nature of a discussion tab. Thanks. 2A04:CEC0:136B:830E:CD53:91B9:B941:E333 21:00, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

And title of the discussion section changed accordingly. 2A04:CEC0:136B:830E:CD53:91B9:B941:E333 21:21, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Btw, for the general public “Etymology · From autism +‎ -ist” makes “autismist.” Nevermind. On the other entry, “autistic”: “autism +‎ -istic” makes… anyway, smart sounding word. Love it. 8.40.31.230 22:49, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

erm... yes. When I read about an etymology, it's because I ...want to know where the word comes from? Yes. That's what an etymology is, you see.

It's not a particularly big deal, but the current etymology is not only curiously uninformative, but wrong. It's from the German. In German, Autist was derived from Autismus. In English, autist came from Autist. Oolong (talk) 12:48, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

Offensive usage

Like many terms which should describe identities in fairly neutral terms, 'autist' is sometimes used as an insult, based on stereotypes about what autistic people are like.

This is not really okay, but I understand there is a case for dictionaries including slurs and harmful but common misuses of terms. I wonder how much detail is warranted, though? Oolong (talk) 13:00, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

Insulting quotes ?

Why use the insulting quote from W M Bernstein (2011): "Like children and animals, autists have relatively rudimentary conceptual lives."? This is precisely the quote people need to read? This is problematic. It's extremely degrading to autists. At this level, you might as well put a quote from Putin to talk about Ukraine, it will come back to the same reasoning. User talk:123autist321 16:50, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Go find us some better ones then. Equinox ◑ 17:00, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

"deleted" 123autist321 (talk) 12:45, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

We don't cite random websites. Only durably archived sources (such as books or newspaper articles) count. — SURJECTION ^{/ T / C / L /} 12:56, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

mention deleted 123autist321 (talk) 16:39, 9 July 2022 (UTC)