Talk:Ludgate Hill

RFD discussion: December 2019–December 2020

The following discussion has been moved from Wiktionary:Requests for deletion (permalink).

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Ludgate Hill

No reason in the entry to suggest this is dictionary material. It has an interesting etymology, perhaps... But so does "Bob Avenue" - a street in my neighbourhood named for Bob, who got run over by a truck on the street. --Vealhurl (talk) 23:52, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

I thought all street names are to be included too, like all place names. Every hill in Rome, Madison Avenue, etc. Only that we do not have sufficient means to disambiguate often-used names as with coordinates (there would be hundreds or thousands of Schillerstraße). Fay Freak (talk) 00:44, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

Street names are not listed in the section Names of specific entities of WT:CFI as a kind of names to be included or excluded. Therefore the following sentence applies: “The editors have not yet reached a consensus as to whether or not the names of places and geographic features other than those listed above should be included in Wiktionary.” I give the term more chance of being kept as being not only the name of a street, but also (and more originally) of the mound on which St. Paul’s Cathedral was built, considered “one of London’s three most ancient hills”, the other two being Cornhill and Tower Hill. As to the etymology, the name comes from the historical Ludgate, an actual gate in the defensive wall around (the City of) London first built by the Romans; it was demolished in 1760.  --Lambiam 08:29, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

The problem is, we don't have a notability criterion and there are enough street names in the world to crowd out just about everything else. For every Ludgate Hill, there are thousands of Main Streets and Third Streets, and countless variations on Oak, Elm, Maple, Hill, Valley, Lake, Central, West, East, etc. If you're ever bored, try typing random English words into Google followed by "road" or "street", and see what comes up. Some of my favorites: Dork Street, Flounder Road, Peuse Road, Pancake Road, Sponge Road, Peep Road, Carrot Road, Plotz Road, Weasel Road, Drain Road, Sprat St... All of these bring up a Google Maps display (at least in the US, they do). As for Bob Avenue: there are at least four of those- in Rosedale, California (not far from Calamity Lane), Wichita Falls, Texas, Muskegan, Michigan and Canal Fulton, Ohio. I'm sure many of these also have some kind of interesting story, but the information that makes Third Street distinct from Lemming Street (which is in Lakewood, California, by the way) is all encyclopedic. Chuck Entz (talk) 15:05, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

My favourites are Warning Tongue(s) Lane, in Bessacarr near Doncaster, and There and Back Again Lane in Bristol. Oh, and Powder Mill Lane, in Whitton near here, was named after the gunpowder mills that used to be nearby until they blew up. DonnanZ (talk) 10:56, 4 December 2019 (UTC)

Ludgate Hill is not the name of the area it's in, just a thoroughfare, unlike Muswell Hill and Denmark Hill which are both suburbs and thoroughfares. I would keep this anyway, like Broadway, Downing Street, Fleet Street, Main Street and other entries of this genre. DonnanZ (talk) 11:46, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

All the examples of streets you gave have figurative senses, but this one doesn't. Delete. Old Man Consequences (talk) 15:48, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

Sometimes the use of hill is a misnomer corresponding to a rise in the ground which is hardly a hill; this certainly applies to three places in my neighbourhood, Hampton Hill, Strawberry Hill and Marble Hill. However, Richmond Hill on the other side of the Thames is a true hill. DonnanZ (talk) 12:44, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

I would delete it just for the presumptuousness of using "the City" instead of "London" in the definition. - TheDaveRoss 13:41, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

That was easily fixed. DonnanZ (talk) 13:49, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

• Delete absent any reason why this has anything to do with a dictionary. Mihia (talk) 00:39, 4 December 2019 (UTC)

Despite there being no entry for Ludgate? There is in Wikipedia though: see Ludgate. DonnanZ (talk) 10:46, 4 December 2019 (UTC)

Why would the lack of an entry for "Ludgate" be a reason to keep "Ludgate Hill"? Mihia (talk) 00:24, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

Etymology, my dear Watson. DonnanZ (talk) 10:02, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

Well, all of the world's billion street names and place names have an etymology. If we are to decide to keep some such entries as being notable despite their definitions having no traditional lexicographical content, I'm not sure that having an etymology, even an "interesting" etymology, should be part of the notability criteria. Mihia (talk) 18:35, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

I daresay more users would want to know about Ludgate Hill than about millions of other streets; I used to live in Ythan Street (named after a Scottish river), but I wouldn't create an entry for it. But even that name has a little story that I didn't know about [1]. DonnanZ (talk) 00:55, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

I would keep this and other similar entries - but not go out of my way to add further similar entries. SemperBlotto (talk) 07:52, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

Delete. Canonicalization (talk) 09:02, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

Keep all. We are not a normal, paper dictionary and we have plenty of room for these. SemperBlotto (talk) 07:40, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

I dropped boldface since one bold keep from Semper is already above. --Dan Polansky (talk) 12:33, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

Keep per Semper and because it isn't an SOP name. Andrew Sheedy (talk) 21:15, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

Keep - Dentonius (my politics | talk) 13:05, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

Delete. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 06:13, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

No consensus, after over a year to discuss. bd2412 T 21:25, 17 December 2020 (UTC)