Talk:쌀
Derivation and potential cognates[edit]
@Karaeng Matoaya, curious if you've read the two papers now linked in this KO entry. Vovin's makes some jumps in reasoning that I really don't agree with (coda-consonant /j/, where ancient Japonic as a whole demonstrates a severe aversion to coda consonants of any kind; his statement that Japonic has final-/m/ deletion is also strange, not least as the noun → verb pairs ending in /me-/ are internally explained as conjugations of suffixing element mu, cognate with miru "to see, to look", with a meaning of "to seem like; to make something seem like"), whereas Unger's describes a mechanic that makes more sense to me and seems to be better supported by known patterns in Japanese (contraction and deletion of final elements in certain compounding contexts to produce the -a-, -u-, and -o- endings, and elision of consonants and vowel fusion in standalone contexts to produce the -e- and -i- endings).
Cheers, ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 17:17, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
- I'm afraid I don't know nearly enough about Japonic for this :P --Karaeng Matoaya (talk) 10:43, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
Please don't delete Joo (2021) without a valid reason[edit]
Thank you. Jooian (talk) 15:31, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
- The relevant text:
Ian Joo [1] argues that its earlier transcription as posal 菩薩 'Bodhisattva' is in fact not a mere phonetic transcription but actually reflects its etymological origin from Middle Chinese, citing the case of a Japanese dialect using the same word (bosatsu ぼさつ) to refer to rice and a religious practice in Korea where a jar of grain is used to symbolize Buddha's body.
- Notably, Japanese sources only attest this meaning from 1614, awfully late for any such Korean-related derivation. That said, the underlying explanation in the 1614 quote might still be relevant. See also the relevant KDJ entry in Kotobank (in Japanese):
⑤ 米の異称。
※慶長見聞集（1614）一「古仏しゃりへんじてすでによねと成と説れたり。かるがゆへに人間は米をぼさつと云」(5) Alternate term for "rice".
- Keichō Kenmon-shū (1614): "It is said that the shari (relic bones after cremation) of an old buddha transformed into uncooked rice. As a result, people call rice "bosatsu (bodhisatva)."
- Might be worth further exploration. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 00:28, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
- How would you explain the difference in vowels? The word 菩薩, buo sɑt̚, was borrowed as 보살, with /a/ in the second syllable. The Korean word for rice, ᄡᆞᆯ〮, has an arae a instead. Jilin leishi has a tendency to transcribe strong arae a using MC /ɑ/ so it would make sense that it would choose the word to transcribe ᄡᆞᆯ〮, but I'm not sure if it makes that much sense in reverse Jeannebluemonheo (talk) 13:56, 12 June 2022 (UTC)