Talk:сꙑнъ

Are we sure about the pronunciation /ˈsɯnʊ/ in OCS?

Hi @Sławobóg,

Question: /ɯ/ is pretty far back in the mouth, as shown on this IPA page. Considering that it eventually merged with /i/ in Bulgarian, and corresponds to /ɨ/ in Russian, wouldn't it make sense for it to be a more central vowel like /ɨ/? I know what the OCS phonology chart on Wikipedia says, but I'm not sure how much I trust it.

Thanks,

Chernorizets (talk) 23:17, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

It is also like that in Appendix:Old Church Slavonic pronunciation and it's used by ORV Module:orv-IPA so it probably should be like that. PS I know we treat Bulgarian as descendant of OCS, but we usually don't do that, atleast for now. Sławobóg (talk) 11:19, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

@Sławobóg Do we have a source for that reconstruction? The appendix doesn't list references, and I didn't see anything in the module comments either - maybe @Thadh has an idea? (Sorry if you're not the right person - I see you've been contributing to the aforementioned module)

Re: PS I know we treat Bulgarian as descendant of OCS, but we usually don't do that, atleast for now. - I'm not sure what you mean. Bulgarian is considered a descendant of OCS by a great many linguists from Schleicher until modern times, not to mention the unique academic institution in the world dedicated to the Bulgarian language. I've seen a few Beer Parlour discussions around this, but they didn't seem to acknowledge the huge body of work over several generations that has driven the point home about the relationship between OCS and Bulgarian. If the scientific consensus has changed in recent times - that's fine, but it would take more to demonstrate that than isolated articles.

Cheers,

Chernorizets (talk) 11:42, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

@Chernorizets: References for OES can be found at WT:AORV. I wouldn't assume the values were the same for OCS, though. For instance, we know for a fact that <ѣ> was pronounced something like /æ/ rather than the /e/ of OES.

As for Bulgarian, there is a discussion ongoing on this topic and I'm pretty sure that we are going to treat OCS as the ancestor of both Bulgarian and Macedonian in the near future. See this discussion and the links given there to the previous ones. Thadh (talk) 11:58, 8 August 2023 (UTC)